Discussion:
bleeps and does anyone use goto
David
2016-09-11 22:20:09 UTC
Permalink
Yes, you cannot call kd_sound from within an interrupt.
I set a 10 ms timer and let it fire when I am long out of the speakup code.
Does anyone use goto? it is a lot of code for what Ithink is not a good
feature. two features I would like to add are:
collumn mode and on screen find. and drop that cussed goto.
Zachary Kline
2016-09-11 22:23:30 UTC
Permalink
I definitely don't, it's poorly implemented, in my experience. I'd much rather see on screen find.

Sent from my iPhone
Post by David
Yes, you cannot call kd_sound from within an interrupt.
I set a 10 ms timer and let it fire when I am long out of the speakup code.
Does anyone use goto? it is a lot of code for what Ithink is not a good
collumn mode and on screen find. and drop that cussed goto.
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Chuck Hallenbeck
2016-09-11 23:33:38 UTC
Permalink
David,

Agreed. Drop goto. After 15 years of using speakup, I have not once gone to.

Chuck
Post by David
Yes, you cannot call kd_sound from within an interrupt.
I set a 10 ms timer and let it fire when I am long out of the speakup code.
Does anyone use goto? it is a lot of code for what Ithink is not a good
collumn mode and on screen find. and drop that cussed goto.
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Willem van der Walt
2016-09-12 05:32:07 UTC
Permalink
Hi,
I use goto, but it is to find a spot on the screen, so if there is such a
feature, I will not miss goto.
HTH, Willem
Post by David
Yes, you cannot call kd_sound from within an interrupt.
I set a 10 ms timer and let it fire when I am long out of the speakup code.
Does anyone use goto? it is a lot of code for what Ithink is not a good
collumn mode and on screen find. and drop that cussed goto.
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Shawn Kirkpatrick
2016-09-12 06:00:11 UTC
Permalink
I would use goto but in my kernel this doesn't work propperly at all. I'm on
a slightly older kernel version so maybe this has been fixed in a later
version.
What I'd like to have is the ability to map going to a specific line to a
key. I'm thinking of imitating the review mode feature in the old artic
vision program where pressing a through y takes you to the given line, a for
line 1, b for line 2, etc. Not having this feature has kept me from using
speakup for any serious work. Having the ability to move quickly to a given
point is a must for me.
Does speakup really not have an on-screen find? That would be long overdue
I'd say.
Post by David
Yes, you cannot call kd_sound from within an interrupt.
I set a 10 ms timer and let it fire when I am long out of the speakup code.
Does anyone use goto? it is a lot of code for what Ithink is not a good
collumn mode and on screen find. and drop that cussed goto.
_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
Gregory Nowak
2016-09-12 23:23:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shawn Kirkpatrick
Does speakup really not have an on-screen find? That would be long
overdue I'd say.
Speakup doesn't have an on-screen find because it isn't necessary in
my not so humble opinion. Such a feature already exists in lynx,
elinks, vi, emacs, less, and there are almost certainly more from that
list that I can't think of off the top of my head. Why duplicate a
feature in speakup which already exists in various packages? Also, the
find feature in those packages will do a find in the current
page/document, whereas a speakup find feature would be limited only
to the current screen contents. Just my $0.01. Oh yes, I don't use go-to either.

Greg
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Shawn Kirkpatrick
2016-09-13 00:08:11 UTC
Permalink
On-screen find is a feature I actually use quite a bit. It's nice having the
ability to enter the search text and then have a way to search forward or
reverse.
It's true that a lot of packages have a way to find text within the current
document but it can be be very helpful to use this to get to the wanted
section of a document and then use the on-screen find to locate something
specific in that section without moving around in it.
It's just one more way to move quickly around the current screen and get to
information you really want.
Post by Gregory Nowak
Post by Shawn Kirkpatrick
Does speakup really not have an on-screen find? That would be long
overdue I'd say.
Speakup doesn't have an on-screen find because it isn't necessary in
my not so humble opinion. Such a feature already exists in lynx,
elinks, vi, emacs, less, and there are almost certainly more from that
list that I can't think of off the top of my head. Why duplicate a
feature in speakup which already exists in various packages? Also, the
find feature in those packages will do a find in the current
page/document, whereas a speakup find feature would be limited only
to the current screen contents. Just my $0.01. Oh yes, I don't use go-to either.
Greg
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Al Sten-Clanton
2016-09-13 02:50:44 UTC
Permalink
I'm inclined to agree, though I don't remember when I last used the
feature.

Al
Post by Shawn Kirkpatrick
On-screen find is a feature I actually use quite a bit. It's nice having
the ability to enter the search text and then have a way to search
forward or reverse.
It's true that a lot of packages have a way to find text within the
current document but it can be be very helpful to use this to get to the
wanted section of a document and then use the on-screen find to locate
something specific in that section without moving around in it.
It's just one more way to move quickly around the current screen and get
to information you really want.
Post by Gregory Nowak
Post by Shawn Kirkpatrick
Does speakup really not have an on-screen find? That would be long
overdue I'd say.
Speakup doesn't have an on-screen find because it isn't necessary in
my not so humble opinion. Such a feature already exists in lynx,
elinks, vi, emacs, less, and there are almost certainly more from that
list that I can't think of off the top of my head. Why duplicate a
feature in speakup which already exists in various packages? Also, the
find feature in those packages will do a find in the current
page/document, whereas a speakup find feature would be limited only
to the current screen contents. Just my $0.01. Oh yes, I don't use go-to either.
Greg
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Tom Fowle
2016-09-13 03:06:25 UTC
Permalink
I've never found documentation on "goto"
See no need for on screen find.

However I would like "cursor routing" which wouldmove the system or
application cursor to the last character spoken.
It's probably harder than it would seem.
tom Fowle
Post by Al Sten-Clanton
I'm inclined to agree, though I don't remember when I last used the
feature.
Al
Post by Shawn Kirkpatrick
On-screen find is a feature I actually use quite a bit. It's nice having
the ability to enter the search text and then have a way to search
forward or reverse.
It's true that a lot of packages have a way to find text within the
current document but it can be be very helpful to use this to get to the
wanted section of a document and then use the on-screen find to locate
something specific in that section without moving around in it.
It's just one more way to move quickly around the current screen and get
to information you really want.
Post by Gregory Nowak
Post by Shawn Kirkpatrick
Does speakup really not have an on-screen find? That would be long
overdue I'd say.
Speakup doesn't have an on-screen find because it isn't necessary in
my not so humble opinion. Such a feature already exists in lynx,
elinks, vi, emacs, less, and there are almost certainly more from that
list that I can't think of off the top of my head. Why duplicate a
feature in speakup which already exists in various packages? Also, the
find feature in those packages will do a find in the current
page/document, whereas a speakup find feature would be limited only
to the current screen contents. Just my $0.01. Oh yes, I don't use go-to either.
Greg
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web site: http://www.gregn.net
gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
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If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts.
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Jude DaShiell
2017-01-03 05:15:11 UTC
Permalink
Does goto work in archlinux? If so, what is entered to position the
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2016 20:08:11
Subject: Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto
On-screen find is a feature I actually use quite a bit. It's nice having the
ability to enter the search text and then have a way to search forward or
reverse.
It's true that a lot of packages have a way to find text within the current
document but it can be be very helpful to use this to get to the wanted
section of a document and then use the on-screen find to locate something
specific in that section without moving around in it.
It's just one more way to move quickly around the current screen and get to
information you really want.
Post by Gregory Nowak
Post by Shawn Kirkpatrick
Does speakup really not have an on-screen find? That would be long
overdue I'd say.
Speakup doesn't have an on-screen find because it isn't necessary in
my not so humble opinion. Such a feature already exists in lynx,
elinks, vi, emacs, less, and there are almost certainly more from that
list that I can't think of off the top of my head. Why duplicate a
feature in speakup which already exists in various packages? Also, the
find feature in those packages will do a find in the current
page/document, whereas a speakup find feature would be limited only
to the current screen contents. Just my $0.01. Oh yes, I don't use go-to
either.
Post by Gregory Nowak
Greg
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contacts.
Post by Gregory Nowak
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Hart Larry
2016-09-13 01:30:22 UTC
Permalink
Actually Greg, certainly I agree L Y N X for one will find a place on a site if
there is a link, but if its just text, whether its L Y N X or less an exact
place is not highlighting. In a case of "less" the chosen work is on line2, so
I must hit and hold down numpad7 until the top. In an editor such as NANO it
highlights exactly what I want. Take care
Hart
Brian Buhrow
2016-09-13 05:08:09 UTC
Permalink
hello. I'm not so much of a speakup user, but every text based screen
reader I've used, I'm currently writing on this with a machine running
Yasr, has a review mode. In review mode, the find function is invaluable
in finding a specific area of the screen. If you have a screen full of
text, and you want to know on which line a specific string of text appears,
the find function can save you a lot of time in that it saves you from
having to read each line of the screen to find the thing you're looking
for.
Similarly, the go to function is very helpful if you know how an
application formats a screen layout. Then, if you want to read a specific
line of text, you can jump directly to that line without having to arrow
around from line to line. My mail program, for example, begins the display
of a message on the third line of my screen. So, when I want to jump to
the start of a message screen, I jump directly to the 3rd line of the
screen, and skip having to read the status line and any other data above
the specific lines I want.
Honestly, I'm shocked that so many on this list think these functions
are vestigial. Perhaps I'm missing something that's special about Speakup
and the need to use these functions, but I can't think of any configuration
of a screen reader that would obviate the need for these two functions.
Yes, lynx, vi, more, etc. have find functions, but they don't necessarily
let you locate the specific region of the screen where the text you're
looking for is located. And how you can function efficiently without that
knowledge, or the ability to get it after a couple of keystrokes, is, quite
frankly, baffling to me.

-Brian

On Sep 12, 4:23pm, Gregory Nowak wrote:
} Subject: Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto
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-- End of excerpt from Gregory Nowak
Kirk Reiser
2016-09-13 15:47:23 UTC
Permalink
It has amazed me over the years how many different ways users find to
use speakup or any screen reader. Certainly many of the functions I
originally wrote are used differently than I intended when I first
wrote them. Many of the features other folks have included in speakup
over the years I have come to depend on as well such as the keyboard
active volume, pitch, and speed and windowing that Dave added. My
intension was never to mimic what other screen readers did other than
the keyboard review keys based on ASAP which I used at the time I
wrote speakup and therefore was comfortable with. Over the years there
have been features I thought would be useful to have for convenience
like on screen find and reading cursor routing to the end of the
current word which I've been tempted to add for years but never seem
to get around to.

I do use the goto function quite a bit and so would probably be sad to
see it go away but like I said everybody uses speakup differently. I
don't see the justification for removing it because placing the review
cursor at a specific point on the screen will be needed for on screen
find or active cursor routing so something else will need to be added
to replace goto's basic functioning. I wouldn't argue it may need to
be rewritten to make it more efficient but removing it doesn't make
any sense to me. I mean if one was to point out features that never
get used how many people even know the xnum facility exist or know how
to use it?

You can place a reading cursor at any point on the screen and 'park'
it there if you need quick access to any one spot. You can set up a
window to silence a portion of the screen which is to verbose that
you'd like to not hear constantly updating. Most of these features are
documented in the speakup users manual so regular users of speakup
should be aware of them. Certainly the are useful additions that can
be made but as with anything people that modify and enhance a program
typically make changes that meet their personal needs rather than the
general community.

There's my nickle-98's worth of opinion.

Kirk
Post by Brian Buhrow
hello. I'm not so much of a speakup user, but every text based screen
reader I've used, I'm currently writing on this with a machine running
Yasr, has a review mode. In review mode, the find function is invaluable
in finding a specific area of the screen. If you have a screen full of
text, and you want to know on which line a specific string of text appears,
the find function can save you a lot of time in that it saves you from
having to read each line of the screen to find the thing you're looking
for.
Similarly, the go to function is very helpful if you know how an
application formats a screen layout. Then, if you want to read a specific
line of text, you can jump directly to that line without having to arrow
around from line to line. My mail program, for example, begins the display
of a message on the third line of my screen. So, when I want to jump to
the start of a message screen, I jump directly to the 3rd line of the
screen, and skip having to read the status line and any other data above
the specific lines I want.
Honestly, I'm shocked that so many on this list think these functions
are vestigial. Perhaps I'm missing something that's special about Speakup
and the need to use these functions, but I can't think of any configuration
of a screen reader that would obviate the need for these two functions.
Yes, lynx, vi, more, etc. have find functions, but they don't necessarily
let you locate the specific region of the screen where the text you're
looking for is located. And how you can function efficiently without that
knowledge, or the ability to get it after a couple of keystrokes, is, quite
frankly, baffling to me.
-Brian
} Subject: Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto
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-- End of excerpt from Gregory Nowak
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Well that's it then, colour me secure!

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Janina Sajka
2016-09-14 15:20:25 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

I want to chime in here in response to Kirk to simply say that I'm of
the opinion Speakup is just about the best thing since sliced bread.

That used to include the goto function for me. I used to use it alot.
There were particular applications or web sites that I ran all the time.
I came to know that the particular bit of data I was after would be
found on line X at column Y. A perfect setup for goto.

I stopped using goto some time ago when the feature started crashing
Fedora. I believe I reported that, but not much happened, so I simply
forgot about goto.

So, if it's a viable option again, count me in. I suppose, now that I'm
sitting on an Arch machine, not a Fedora kernel build, I should try goto
again? When I'm able to sustain a hit? Or anytime because the water is
warm and inviting?

Janina
Post by Kirk Reiser
It has amazed me over the years how many different ways users find to
use speakup or any screen reader. Certainly many of the functions I
originally wrote are used differently than I intended when I first
wrote them. Many of the features other folks have included in speakup
over the years I have come to depend on as well such as the keyboard
active volume, pitch, and speed and windowing that Dave added. My
intension was never to mimic what other screen readers did other than
the keyboard review keys based on ASAP which I used at the time I
wrote speakup and therefore was comfortable with. Over the years there
have been features I thought would be useful to have for convenience
like on screen find and reading cursor routing to the end of the
current word which I've been tempted to add for years but never seem
to get around to.
I do use the goto function quite a bit and so would probably be sad to
see it go away but like I said everybody uses speakup differently. I
don't see the justification for removing it because placing the review
cursor at a specific point on the screen will be needed for on screen
find or active cursor routing so something else will need to be added
to replace goto's basic functioning. I wouldn't argue it may need to
be rewritten to make it more efficient but removing it doesn't make
any sense to me. I mean if one was to point out features that never
get used how many people even know the xnum facility exist or know how
to use it?
You can place a reading cursor at any point on the screen and 'park'
it there if you need quick access to any one spot. You can set up a
window to silence a portion of the screen which is to verbose that
you'd like to not hear constantly updating. Most of these features are
documented in the speakup users manual so regular users of speakup
should be aware of them. Certainly the are useful additions that can
be made but as with anything people that modify and enhance a program
typically make changes that meet their personal needs rather than the
general community.
There's my nickle-98's worth of opinion.
Kirk
Post by Brian Buhrow
hello. I'm not so much of a speakup user, but every text based screen
reader I've used, I'm currently writing on this with a machine running
Yasr, has a review mode. In review mode, the find function is invaluable
in finding a specific area of the screen. If you have a screen full of
text, and you want to know on which line a specific string of text appears,
the find function can save you a lot of time in that it saves you from
having to read each line of the screen to find the thing you're looking
for.
Similarly, the go to function is very helpful if you know how an
application formats a screen layout. Then, if you want to read a specific
line of text, you can jump directly to that line without having to arrow
around from line to line. My mail program, for example, begins the display
of a message on the third line of my screen. So, when I want to jump to
the start of a message screen, I jump directly to the 3rd line of the
screen, and skip having to read the status line and any other data above
the specific lines I want.
Honestly, I'm shocked that so many on this list think these functions
are vestigial. Perhaps I'm missing something that's special about Speakup
and the need to use these functions, but I can't think of any configuration
of a screen reader that would obviate the need for these two functions.
Yes, lynx, vi, more, etc. have find functions, but they don't necessarily
let you locate the specific region of the screen where the text you're
looking for is located. And how you can function efficiently without that
knowledge, or the ability to get it after a couple of keystrokes, is, quite
frankly, baffling to me.
-Brian
} Subject: Re: bleeps and does anyone use goto
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-- End of excerpt from Gregory Nowak
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--
Well that's it then, colour me secure!
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_______________________________________________
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--
Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200
sip:***@asterisk.rednote.net
Email: ***@rednote.net

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
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