Hello

[KatolaZ]

Hi there,

I am the guy working on the minimal Devuan live images, and as you
might remember I am interested in making those live ISOs usable by
visually impaired users, although my experience in this field is
*very* *limited*. You can find the current images (still in
development) at the following URL:

http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu

These images ship with espeak/espeakup, brltty, and yasr by default. I
have exchanged a few emails with Greg Nowak on this matter, and he
suggested me to join this mailing-list, to speed-up the process of
getting feedback and asking you for useful features.

Following the comments forwarded by some of you, I am currently
working on providing an accessible run-level on those live-images,
which will include:

1) audible feedback during the boot;

2) automatic login for root and regular user, to speedup
configuration;

3) hopefully, configuration of the sound card to use with
espeak/espeakup.

If you don't mind, I will post updates on my progress here, every now
and then, and I would be grateful to you for any comment, suggestion,
critic that you would be so kind to provide.

Thanks in advance for any help you will be able to provide.

HND

KatolaZ

[Parham Doustdar]

Hi,

It’s awesome to see you interested in making these images accessible.
Keep up the good work, and I’ll personally be following the progress
very closely! :-)

Post by KatolaZ
Hi there,
I am the guy working on the minimal Devuan live images, and as you
might remember I am interested in making those live ISOs usable by
visually impaired users, although my experience in this field is
*very* *limited*. You can find the current images (still in
http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu
These images ship with espeak/espeakup, brltty, and yasr by default. I
have exchanged a few emails with Greg Nowak on this matter, and he
suggested me to join this mailing-list, to speed-up the process of
getting feedback and asking you for useful features.
Following the comments forwarded by some of you, I am currently
working on providing an accessible run-level on those live-images,
1) audible feedback during the boot;
2) automatic login for root and regular user, to speedup
configuration;
3) hopefully, configuration of the sound card to use with
espeak/espeakup.
If you don't mind, I will post updates on my progress here, every now
and then, and I would be grateful to you for any comment, suggestion,
critic that you would be so kind to provide.
Thanks in advance for any help you will be able to provide.
HND
KatolaZ

​

[KatolaZ]

Hi,
It’s awesome to see you interested in making these images accessible. Keep
up the good work, and I’ll personally be following the progress very
closely! :-)

Hi Parham,

thanks for your encouragement. I am currently working at the next
version of the images, which already include beeps for accessible boot
entries, and an accessible runlevel with autologin (with "root" on
tty1 and "devuan" on tty2-6), audible boot feedback, and beep when the
prompts are ready.

I will keep you posted.

HND

KatolaZ

[Jude DaShiell]

Is some form of wifi support planned for devuan? I was able to run it
locally and will try it with an ethernet connection to see if it gets
out onto the internet when I do that.
If emacs is already on devuan it would be possible with edits of
probably three files to install emacspeak-git and get it working pretty
quickly. export DTK_PROGRAM=speakup_soft in each .profile file and a
line in each user's .emacs file given on the emacspeak-git distro's info
page should get that done.

Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 14:25:00
Reply-To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Hello
Hi there,
I am the guy working on the minimal Devuan live images, and as you
might remember I am interested in making those live ISOs usable by
visually impaired users, although my experience in this field is
*very* *limited*. You can find the current images (still in
http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu
These images ship with espeak/espeakup, brltty, and yasr by default. I
have exchanged a few emails with Greg Nowak on this matter, and he
suggested me to join this mailing-list, to speed-up the process of
getting feedback and asking you for useful features.
Following the comments forwarded by some of you, I am currently
working on providing an accessible run-level on those live-images,
1) audible feedback during the boot;
2) automatic login for root and regular user, to speedup
configuration;
3) hopefully, configuration of the sound card to use with
espeak/espeakup.
If you don't mind, I will post updates on my progress here, every now
and then, and I would be grateful to you for any comment, suggestion,
critic that you would be so kind to provide.
Thanks in advance for any help you will be able to provide.
HND
KatolaZ
--
[ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - GLUGCT -- Freaknet Medialab ]
[ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ]
_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

--

[KatolaZ]

On Sun, Jun 05, 2016 at 08:45:32AM -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote:

Hi Jude,

answers are inline below.

Post by Jude DaShiell
Is some form of wifi support planned for devuan? I was able to run it
locally and will try it with an ethernet connection to see if it gets out
onto the internet when I do that.

In the last images there is a minimal wpa_supplicant.conf, which
should be sufficient to configure wifi using wpa_cli. I am aware that
this is not ideal, but I couldn't find a proper network manager to
include in the minimal live (almost all of them are bloated, and
require a massive amount of dependencies). I know that the Devuan
developers are working at a minimal console-based connection manager,
but that is not yet there.

In the meanwhile, I am also trying to include the accessible boot
option in the standard live (which will have higher requirements in
terms of both RAM and disk footprint), and this is a very good
suggestion.

Post by Jude DaShiell
If emacs is already on devuan it would be possible with edits of probably
three files to install emacspeak-git and get it working pretty quickly.
export DTK_PROGRAM=speakup_soft in each .profile file and a line in each
user's .emacs file given on the emacspeak-git distro's info page should get
that done.

Emacs is on Devuan, but not in these minimal live images, where only
zile (a tiny emacs clone) is available. So at the moment there is no
support for emacspeak either :( Sorry for that. I am working to keep
these images really "minimal", in terms of disk and memory
requirements.

Nevertheless, I am planning to include the possibility of installing
"on-the-fly" specific sets of packages, e.g. emacspeak, by choosing
them from a simple menu, but this is something that might require a
bit of work to become useful.

Thanks again for your feedback :)

HND

KatolaZ

[Jude DaShiell]

archlinux for command line wifi configuration uses a package called
netctl one of its dependencies is dialog and there are other
dependencies too but I suspect netctl with all dependencies installed
will be a good deal smaller than any of the other network managers you
have researched to date. For the record, the wifi adapter I have is a
ralink which on debian requires fnon-free firmware but installs without
that on talkingarchlinux just needing netctl package and dialog. If you
try netctl, the wifimenu command will be installed and that's what you
use to start things off. wifimenu -o if netctl finds a wifi adapter it
can use will get you a list of available networks from which to select
and then it's a matter of netctl list to show availablenetworks
andnetctl start first network string in list from netctl list then
netctl enable networkstrring to make that network come up automatically
on boot.

Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 16:08:25
Reply-To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: Hello
Hi Jude,
answers are inline below.

Post by Jude DaShiell
Is some form of wifi support planned for devuan? I was able to run it
locally and will try it with an ethernet connection to see if it gets out
onto the internet when I do that.

In the last images there is a minimal wpa_supplicant.conf, which
should be sufficient to configure wifi using wpa_cli. I am aware that
this is not ideal, but I couldn't find a proper network manager to
include in the minimal live (almost all of them are bloated, and
require a massive amount of dependencies). I know that the Devuan
developers are working at a minimal console-based connection manager,
but that is not yet there.
In the meanwhile, I am also trying to include the accessible boot
option in the standard live (which will have higher requirements in
terms of both RAM and disk footprint), and this is a very good
suggestion.

Post by Jude DaShiell
If emacs is already on devuan it would be possible with edits of probably
three files to install emacspeak-git and get it working pretty quickly.
export DTK_PROGRAM=speakup_soft in each .profile file and a line in each
user's .emacs file given on the emacspeak-git distro's info page should get
that done.

Emacs is on Devuan, but not in these minimal live images, where only
zile (a tiny emacs clone) is available. So at the moment there is no
support for emacspeak either :( Sorry for that. I am working to keep
these images really "minimal", in terms of disk and memory
requirements.
Nevertheless, I am planning to include the possibility of installing
"on-the-fly" specific sets of packages, e.g. emacspeak, by choosing
them from a simple menu, but this is something that might require a
bit of work to become useful.
Thanks again for your feedback :)
HND
KatolaZ
--
[ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - GLUGCT -- Freaknet Medialab ]
[ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ]
_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

--

[KatolaZ]

archlinux for command line wifi configuration uses a package called netctl
one of its dependencies is dialog and there are other dependencies too but I
suspect netctl with all dependencies installed will be a good deal smaller
than any of the other network managers you have researched to date. For the
record, the wifi adapter I have is a ralink which on debian requires
fnon-free firmware but installs without that on talkingarchlinux just

Hi Jude,

thank you very much for your feedback, which is very much
appreciated. I will go and have a look to this netctl used in Arch.
Concerning firmware, we will surely add all the free firwmares in th
enext release, but most probably no non-free firmware will be shipped
with the standard version.

Thanks

KatolaZ

[John G Heim]

I am able to verify that devuan works with my 40-cell braille display
from Freedom Scientific.

What is the login id & password? I was able to guess it, I think. I used
devuan/devuan. But then I couldn't sudo. So then I couldn't test
speakup. Is there some other login that has sudo rights?

I was also able to validate that sound is working. This is on a Dell
720. I rand espeak and it worked.

One suggestion ... It would be helpful if the syslinux splash screen is
brighter. If the syslinux splash screen is really bright, a partially
sighted person can tell when the poot prompt is displayed. A totally
blind person can use a light probe or a smart phone app.

Post by KatolaZ
Hi there,
I am the guy working on the minimal Devuan live images, and as you
might remember I am interested in making those live ISOs usable by
visually impaired users, although my experience in this field is
*very* *limited*. You can find the current images (still in
http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu
These images ship with espeak/espeakup, brltty, and yasr by default. I
have exchanged a few emails with Greg Nowak on this matter, and he
suggested me to join this mailing-list, to speed-up the process of
getting feedback and asking you for useful features.
Following the comments forwarded by some of you, I am currently
working on providing an accessible run-level on those live-images,
1) audible feedback during the boot;
2) automatic login for root and regular user, to speedup
configuration;
3) hopefully, configuration of the sound card to use with
espeak/espeakup.
If you don't mind, I will post updates on my progress here, every now
and then, and I would be grateful to you for any comment, suggestion,
critic that you would be so kind to provide.
Thanks in advance for any help you will be able to provide.
HND
KatolaZ

[Gregory Nowak]

Post by John G Heim
What is the login id & password? I was able to guess it, I think. I
used devuan/devuan. But then I couldn't sudo. So then I couldn't
test speakup. Is there some other login that has sudo rights?

Logging in as root/toor will give you root access. This is mentioned
on the page where you can download the images from.

Greg

[John G Heim]

Well, the login info is on there alright but it's pretty well hidden.
Once I was able to log in as root, I was able to get speakup working
with software speech. No luck with my Tripletalk hardware synth though.
We had a thread about serial port hardware synths just a few months ago.
IIRC, you had to put something in grub. I never got that to work and it
doesn't apply here anyway. But I see there is a /dev/ttyS0 and I believe
the most recent speakup patches require you to keep the kernel from
creating a /dev/ttyS0 before they can load a speakup hardware synt
driver module.

Post by Gregory Nowak

Post by John G Heim
What is the login id & password? I was able to guess it, I think. I
used devuan/devuan. But then I couldn't sudo. So then I couldn't
test speakup. Is there some other login that has sudo rights?

Logging in as root/toor will give you root access. This is mentioned
on the page where you can download the images from.
Greg

[KatolaZ]

Well, the login info is on there alright but it's pretty well hidden. Once I
was able to log in as root, I was able to get speakup working with software
speech. No luck with my Tripletalk hardware synth though. We had a thread

Sorry for that. Regular user is devuan/devuan. Administrator is
root/toor. In the next release I am working on, the accessible
runlevel already has autologin (root on tty1 and devuan on the other 5
ttys).

about serial port hardware synths just a few months ago. IIRC, you had to
put something in grub. I never got that to work and it doesn't apply here
anyway. But I see there is a /dev/ttyS0 and I believe the most recent
speakup patches require you to keep the kernel from creating a /dev/ttyS0
before they can load a speakup hardware synt driver module.

Here I really need your help guys. We don't have grub in the Devuan
minimal live, but I am sure we can find a workaround. But please point
me to the stuff I need to study :)

HND

KatolaZ

[Gregory Nowak]

Post by John G Heim
Once I was able to log in as root, I was able to get speakup
working with software speech. No luck with my Tripletalk hardware
synth though. We had a thread about serial port hardware synths
just a few months ago. IIRC, you had to put something in grub. I
never got that to work and it doesn't apply here anyway. But I see
there is a /dev/ttyS0 and I believe the most recent speakup patches
require you to keep the kernel from creating a /dev/ttyS0 before
they can load a speakup hardware synt driver module.

I don't have a tripletalk here, so can't comment. However, I can tell
you that I've tried using the devuan minimal i386 iso with a bns 640
via the speakup_bns module, and that works just fine. All I
needed to do is modprobe speakup_bns, and it came right up talking
through the bns. So, I know the bns driver at least
works right out of the box.

Greg

[Zachary Kline]

Hi,

Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t these only work if you have hardware serial ports on the motherboard? These have been virtually unheard of on modern desktops and laptops for years. If it were possible for Speakup to work with USB serial synthesizers, that would be ideal.

Sorry for the thread hijack,
Zack.

Post by Gregory Nowak

Post by John G Heim
Once I was able to log in as root, I was able to get speakup
working with software speech. No luck with my Tripletalk hardware
synth though. We had a thread about serial port hardware synths
just a few months ago. IIRC, you had to put something in grub. I
never got that to work and it doesn't apply here anyway. But I see
there is a /dev/ttyS0 and I believe the most recent speakup patches
require you to keep the kernel from creating a /dev/ttyS0 before
they can load a speakup hardware synt driver module.

I don't have a tripletalk here, so can't comment. However, I can tell
you that I've tried using the devuan minimal i386 iso with a bns 640
via the speakup_bns module, and that works just fine. All I
needed to do is modprobe speakup_bns, and it came right up talking
through the bns. So, I know the bns driver at least
works right out of the box.
Greg
--
web site: http://www.gregn.net
gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
skype: gregn1
(authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts.
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[Gregory Nowak]

Yes, as far as I know speakup doesn't yet support serial ports that
are pci or usb converters. I did my testing with the bns on a machine
with standard serial ports on the motherboard. For what it's worth, I
also tried the devuan minimal i386 iso with a doubletalk pc, and that
works fine too.

Greg

Post by Zachary Kline
Hi,
Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t these only work if you have hardware serial ports on the motherboard? These have been virtually unheard of on modern desktops and laptops for years. If it were possible for Speakup to work with USB serial synthesizers, that would be ideal.

[John G Heim]

Huh... The tripletalk uses the same driver as the doubletalk. So you're
saying you typede, "modprobe speakup_ltlk" and it worked? I'm running
the i386 version of devuan. I'm about as sure as I can be that my synth
works. I can type "uname -r > /dev/ttyS0" and the kernel version is
spoken via the tripletalk.

Post by Gregory Nowak
Yes, as far as I know speakup doesn't yet support serial ports that
are pci or usb converters. I did my testing with the bns on a machine
with standard serial ports on the motherboard. For what it's worth, I
also tried the devuan minimal i386 iso with a doubletalk pc, and that
works fine too.
Greg

Post by Zachary Kline
Hi,
Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t these only work if you have hardware serial ports on the motherboard? These have been virtually unheard of on modern desktops and laptops for years. If it were possible for Speakup to work with USB serial synthesizers, that would be ideal.

[c***@ccs.covici.com]

How did you get that to work -- did you patch serialio.c or are you
using an older kernel?

Post by John G Heim
Huh... The tripletalk uses the same driver as the doubletalk. So
you're saying you typede, "modprobe speakup_ltlk" and it worked? I'm
running the i386 version of devuan. I'm about as sure as I can be that
my synth works. I can type "uname -r > /dev/ttyS0" and the kernel
version is spoken via the tripletalk.

Post by Gregory Nowak
Yes, as far as I know speakup doesn't yet support serial ports that
are pci or usb converters. I did my testing with the bns on a machine
with standard serial ports on the motherboard. For what it's worth, I
also tried the devuan minimal i386 iso with a doubletalk pc, and that
works fine too.
Greg

Post by Zachary Kline
Hi,
Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t these only work if you have hardware serial ports on the motherboard? These have been virtually unheard of on modern desktops and laptops for years. If it were possible for Speakup to work with USB serial synthesizers, that would be ideal.

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[Gregory Nowak]

Post by John G Heim
you're saying you typede, "modprobe speakup_ltlk" and it worked? I'm

No. If you go back and read my reply below, you'll note I specifically
said I tested with a doubletalk pc, not a doubletalk sa. What that
means then is that I typed:

modprobe speakup_dtlk

and got speech.

Greg

Post by John G Heim
running the i386 version of devuan. I'm about as sure as I can be
that my synth works. I can type "uname -r > /dev/ttyS0" and the
kernel version is spoken via the tripletalk.

Post by Gregory Nowak
Yes, as far as I know speakup doesn't yet support serial ports that
are pci or usb converters. I did my testing with the bns on a machine
with standard serial ports on the motherboard. For what it's worth, I
also tried the devuan minimal i386 iso with a doubletalk pc, and that
works fine too.
Greg

Post by Zachary Kline
Hi,
Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t these only work if you have hardware serial ports on the motherboard? These have been virtually unheard of on modern desktops and laptops for years. If it were possible for Speakup to work with USB serial synthesizers, that would be ideal.

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[John G Heim]

I have to dispute your assertion that serial ports have been unheard of
on desktops for years. A basic Dell desktop still comes with a serial
port. In fact, personally, I have never seen a desktop without a serial
port. I work for the University Of Wisconsin and of the hundreds of PC
desktops I've worked on, every single one has had a serial port. At home
I build my own computers so when I order a motherboard, I just make sure
it has a serial port header block.

I'll grant that very few laptops have serial ports these days. But, to
be quite honest, I don't think that's particularly relevant. I don't
even think it's particularly relevant that many desktops don't have
serial ports. I doubt that very many people would use speakup on a
laptop even if it worked via a usb port. I doubt that very many people
use speakup on their desktop on a daily basis. Don't get me wrong,
speakup is sill a key part of the accessibility infrastructure but it is
mostly valuable for servers and for rescue systems.

I know the opinions I've stated above are going to be controversial on
this list. But I assert that the number of orca users vastly outnumbers
the speakup users. And even orca users are probably a very tiny group.
But, again, I am not saying speakup isn't important. My opinion is that
it's extremely important because there are people who put bread on the
table via speakup. Some of us literally couldn't do our jobs without
speakup.

In fact, this is an important consideration for the developers of
devuan. We aren't talking about some bug in a Windows screen reader that
makes it hard for someone to play sudoku on-line. Admittedly there are
other rescue systems around. But if devuan is to become a player, a
distro that everybody is familiar with, it's extremely important that
it be accessible. This is not an exaggeration -- the ability of someone
to feed their family might depend on it.

I don't know how a developer weighs those considerations. What's more
important, a bug that keeps a thousand people from playing sudoku or one
that keeps ten people from rescuing a web server that is down? I know
where I'd come down though.

PS: I don't care how sudoku is spelled.

Post by Zachary Kline
Hi,
Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t these only work if you have hardware serial ports on the motherboard? These have been virtually unheard of on modern desktops and laptops for years. If it were possible for Speakup to work with USB serial synthesizers, that would be ideal.
Sorry for the thread hijack,
Zack.

Post by Gregory Nowak

Post by John G Heim
Once I was able to log in as root, I was able to get speakup
working with software speech. No luck with my Tripletalk hardware
synth though. We had a thread about serial port hardware synths
just a few months ago. IIRC, you had to put something in grub. I
never got that to work and it doesn't apply here anyway. But I see
there is a /dev/ttyS0 and I believe the most recent speakup patches
require you to keep the kernel from creating a /dev/ttyS0 before
they can load a speakup hardware synt driver module.

I don't have a tripletalk here, so can't comment. However, I can tell
you that I've tried using the devuan minimal i386 iso with a bns 640
via the speakup_bns module, and that works just fine. All I
needed to do is modprobe speakup_bns, and it came right up talking
through the bns. So, I know the bns driver at least
works right out of the box.
Greg
--
web site: http://www.gregn.net
gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc
skype: gregn1
(authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts.
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[KatolaZ]

On Wed, Jun 08, 2016 at 08:45:59AM -0500, John G Heim wrote:

[cut]

In fact, this is an important consideration for the developers of devuan. We
aren't talking about some bug in a Windows screen reader that makes it hard
for someone to play sudoku on-line. Admittedly there are other rescue
systems around. But if devuan is to become a player, a distro that everybody
is familiar with, it's extremely important that it be accessible. This is
not an exaggeration -- the ability of someone to feed their family might
depend on it.

Hi John,

Thank you for your kind email and sorry for the aggressive quoting on
my side. I appreciate your take on Orca vs speakup, but we should
probably recall that what I am developing is a console-only minimal
live Devuan system, not a full-featured desktop system. That's why
speakup looked like the most reasonable solution.

As I said, I don't have that much experience with accessibility. I am
not visually impaired (sorry for that!), I have never used a hw speech
synthetizer, and I have barely seen a braille terminal a couple of
times in my entire life, so I genuinely don't know what are the issues
there. I am here because I think that people on this list can help, as
have already done so far, to put in place some good support for
accessibility.

My intention was not to cause flames or religious wars here, but
rather to get feedback on this little project, in the hope that it can
be also useful to visually impaired users. I am sorry if something
does not work out-of-the-box, and I am ready to work to fix it, but I
do need your feedback to be able to do that. A honest feedback, and
maybe pointers to resources I can use to fill the gaps. That's all I
am talking about.

I don't know how a developer weighs those considerations. What's more
important, a bug that keeps a thousand people from playing sudoku or one
that keeps ten people from rescuing a web server that is down? I know where
I'd come down though.

I perfectly understand your point, and this is exactly why I thought
that adding support for visually impaired users in a minimal devuan
live was a good idea. Not just to play sudoku, but to perform standard
admin tasks as well.

For I don't know exactly which reason, I am trying to help, but
without your comments and suggestions I can't get that far on this
path.

HND

KatolaZ

[John G Heim]

Right but my point was that what you are doing is exactly right. By no
means am I suggesting you try to get orca to work, I'd be against it if
you wanted to do that.

I guess another way to make my point would be to say I'm really glad you
are on this list. I find your commitment to accessibility refreshing.
Good work. And thanks.

Post by KatolaZ
[cut]

In fact, this is an important consideration for the developers of devuan. We
aren't talking about some bug in a Windows screen reader that makes it hard
for someone to play sudoku on-line. Admittedly there are other rescue
systems around. But if devuan is to become a player, a distro that everybody
is familiar with, it's extremely important that it be accessible. This is
not an exaggeration -- the ability of someone to feed their family might
depend on it.

Hi John,
Thank you for your kind email and sorry for the aggressive quoting on
my side. I appreciate your take on Orca vs speakup, but we should
probably recall that what I am developing is a console-only minimal
live Devuan system, not a full-featured desktop system. That's why
speakup looked like the most reasonable solution.
As I said, I don't have that much experience with accessibility. I am
not visually impaired (sorry for that!), I have never used a hw speech
synthetizer, and I have barely seen a braille terminal a couple of
times in my entire life, so I genuinely don't know what are the issues
there. I am here because I think that people on this list can help, as
have already done so far, to put in place some good support for
accessibility.
My intention was not to cause flames or religious wars here, but
rather to get feedback on this little project, in the hope that it can
be also useful to visually impaired users. I am sorry if something
does not work out-of-the-box, and I am ready to work to fix it, but I
do need your feedback to be able to do that. A honest feedback, and
maybe pointers to resources I can use to fill the gaps. That's all I
am talking about.

I don't know how a developer weighs those considerations. What's more
important, a bug that keeps a thousand people from playing sudoku or one
that keeps ten people from rescuing a web server that is down? I know where
I'd come down though.

I perfectly understand your point, and this is exactly why I thought
that adding support for visually impaired users in a minimal devuan
live was a good idea. Not just to play sudoku, but to perform standard
admin tasks as well.
For I don't know exactly which reason, I am trying to help, but
without your comments and suggestions I can't get that far on this
path.
HND
KatolaZ

[Rob]

I guess another way to make my point would be to say I'm really glad you are on this list. I find your commitment to accessibility refreshing.

I echo that sentiment. Usually we're an afterthought. Sad, but true.

[KatolaZ]

Post by John G Heim
Right but my point was that what you are doing is exactly right. By no
means am I suggesting you try to get orca to work, I'd be against it if you
wanted to do that.
I guess another way to make my point would be to say I'm really glad you are
on this list. I find your commitment to accessibility refreshing. Good work.
And thanks.

Sorry. I got confused :)

Thanks

KatolaZ

[c***@ccs.covici.com]

That is correct, I have not seen a motherboard without a serial port,
but often the cable/bracket is not there to put it on the backplane.

I use speakup every day and its invaluable to me. Linux is a part of my
infrastructure.

Post by John G Heim
I have to dispute your assertion that serial ports have been unheard
of on desktops for years. A basic Dell desktop still comes with a
serial port. In fact, personally, I have never seen a desktop without
a serial port. I work for the University Of Wisconsin and of the
hundreds of PC desktops I've worked on, every single one has had a
serial port. At home I build my own computers so when I order a
motherboard, I just make sure it has a serial port header block.
I'll grant that very few laptops have serial ports these days. But, to
be quite honest, I don't think that's particularly relevant. I don't
even think it's particularly relevant that many desktops don't have
serial ports. I doubt that very many people would use speakup on a
laptop even if it worked via a usb port. I doubt that very many
people use speakup on their desktop on a daily basis. Don't get me
wrong, speakup is sill a key part of the accessibility infrastructure
but it is mostly valuable for servers and for rescue systems.
I know the opinions I've stated above are going to be controversial on
this list. But I assert that the number of orca users vastly
outnumbers the speakup users. And even orca users are probably a very
tiny group. But, again, I am not saying speakup isn't important. My
opinion is that it's extremely important because there are people who
put bread on the table via speakup. Some of us literally couldn't do
our jobs without speakup.
In fact, this is an important consideration for the developers of
devuan. We aren't talking about some bug in a Windows screen reader
that makes it hard for someone to play sudoku on-line. Admittedly
there are other rescue systems around. But if devuan is to become a
player, a distro that everybody is familiar with, it's extremely
important that it be accessible. This is not an exaggeration -- the
ability of someone to feed their family might depend on it.
I don't know how a developer weighs those considerations. What's more
important, a bug that keeps a thousand people from playing sudoku or
one that keeps ten people from rescuing a web server that is down? I
know where I'd come down though.
PS: I don't care how sudoku is spelled.

Post by Zachary Kline
Hi,
Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t these only work if you have hardware serial ports on the motherboard? These have been virtually unheard of on modern desktops and laptops for years. If it were possible for Speakup to work with USB serial synthesizers, that would be ideal.
Sorry for the thread hijack,
Zack.

Post by Gregory Nowak

Post by John G Heim
Once I was able to log in as root, I was able to get speakup
working with software speech. No luck with my Tripletalk hardware
synth though. We had a thread about serial port hardware synths
just a few months ago. IIRC, you had to put something in grub. I
never got that to work and it doesn't apply here anyway. But I see
there is a /dev/ttyS0 and I believe the most recent speakup patches
require you to keep the kernel from creating a /dev/ttyS0 before
they can load a speakup hardware synt driver module.

I don't have a tripletalk here, so can't comment. However, I can tell
you that I've tried using the devuan minimal i386 iso with a bns 640
via the speakup_bns module, and that works just fine. All I
needed to do is modprobe speakup_bns, and it came right up talking
through the bns. So, I know the bns driver at least
works right out of the box.
Greg
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[John G Heim]

Some of the speakup drivers avoid the problematic code segment by not
using the speakup functions for talking to the serial port. The code
that causes the problem is in serialio.c and some of the speakup drivers
simply don't call the functions in that module.

Post by Gregory Nowak

Post by John G Heim
Once I was able to log in as root, I was able to get speakup
working with software speech. No luck with my Tripletalk hardware
synth though. We had a thread about serial port hardware synths
just a few months ago. IIRC, you had to put something in grub. I
never got that to work and it doesn't apply here anyway. But I see
there is a /dev/ttyS0 and I believe the most recent speakup patches
require you to keep the kernel from creating a /dev/ttyS0 before
they can load a speakup hardware synt driver module.

I don't have a tripletalk here, so can't comment. However, I can tell
you that I've tried using the devuan minimal i386 iso with a bns 640
via the speakup_bns module, and that works just fine. All I
needed to do is modprobe speakup_bns, and it came right up talking
through the bns. So, I know the bns driver at least
works right out of the box.
Greg

[KatolaZ]

I am able to verify that devuan works with my 40-cell braille display from
Freedom Scientific.
What is the login id & password? I was able to guess it, I think. I used
devuan/devuan. But then I couldn't sudo. So then I couldn't test speakup. Is
there some other login that has sudo rights?

Hi John,

sorry for that. I just replied saying that root password is "toor",
and that the next release will have autologin on all the consoles
(tty1 will be reserved to root).

I was also able to validate that sound is working. This is on a Dell 720. I
rand espeak and it worked.
One suggestion ... It would be helpful if the syslinux splash screen is
brighter. If the syslinux splash screen is really bright, a partially
sighted person can tell when the poot prompt is displayed. A totally blind
person can use a light probe or a smart phone app.

Great suggestion. I will replace the current isolinux splashscreen
with a brighter one.

Thanks again for your feedback, which in very much appreciated.

HND

KatolaZ